Is Bob calling HWA a liar?
HERBERT W. ARMSTRONG
PRESIDENT and PASTOR
January 4, 1985
Dear Brethren and Co-Workers:
The time has come to send each of you your receipt for tithes and offerings for 1984.
I want you to realize the magnitude of the accomplishments you have helped make possible — yet I wonder if it is humanly possible to comprehend just how great is the Work the living Christ is accomplishing through our combined efforts and sacrifice under him and through the boundless power of the great Creator God.
We are humanly inclined to judge by what we can see physically. What we see physically is one of the smallest church bodies on earth. Yet what we should see spiritually is something so stupendous as to defy any comparison, so colossal above all that has been accomplished by all the combined efforts of the large churches of this world. Spiritually it is a gigantic worldwide accomplishment compared to no spiritual accomplishment whatsoever.
Jesus Christ sent forth the first apostles going afoot, or on horseback or by sailboat, to the small world of that day, centered around the Mediterranean Sea. In 20 years there was violent controversy over whether the gospel to be proclaimed was a gospel ABOUT Christ, or the gospel OF Christ. For nearly 1,900 years Christ’s Gospel of the Kingdom of God was thereafter NOT PROCLAIMED to the world. But Jesus had said, “THIS gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a witness unto ALL NATIONS, and then shall the end [of this world] come.”
The tithes and offerings of this little church began proclaiming 1,900 years later the Gospel of the Kingdom — the only true Gospel started by Jesus — throughout Europe after it had gone forth for 19 years over the United States and Canada.
It is now true that this Gospel has been proclaimed within EVERY NATION ON EARTH BY THE WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD.
NO OTHER CHURCH has proclaimed THIS true Gospel at all!
Following are actual figures you should know of for the year 1984 in comparison with 1981, just three years earlier.
+ In 1981, 22 million PLAIN TRUTH magazines were sent to homes or distributed on newsstands. In 1984, 73 million PLAIN TRUTHS went out. Monthly circulation soared past seven million copies.
+ In 1981, 800,000 GOOD NEWS magazines were mailed. In 1984, 3.7 million went to members, co-workers, and other subscribers.
+ In 1981, 191,000 copies of YOUTH 81 magazine were sent to teenagers and other readers. In 1984, 1.2 million YOUTH 84s were sent out.
+ In 1981, two million books, booklets and reprint articles were sent out. In 1984, more than six million were sent upon request.
+ In 1981, our Mail Processing Department received 2.5 million letters, plus 336,000 telephone requests on our toll-free lines. In 1984, five million letters were received, plus 800,000 telephone requests.
+ In 1981, 52,000 enrolled in the Ambassador College Bible Correspondence Course. In 1984, 250,000 enrolled.
What tremendous growth in just three years your tithes and offerings have made possible!
With love and gratitude, in Jesus’ name,
Herbert W. Armstrong
Never saw this back in the day because by 1984, I was 9 years gone.
However, a couple of things stand out immediately. When David Pack uses superlatives and hyperbole, it is obvious, based on this letter, that he’s operating in HWA’s valence. Pack’s got to be the Dana Carvey or Rich Little of COGdom, because he’s got HWA nailed.
Secondly, there are a number of mainstream churches who have analyzed “the world” via surveys and computer to determine where the gospel has been preached, and areas which have been missed. I am not their apologist, of course, but when they speak of the gospel being preached, they are speaking about effectiveness, meaning that the level was sufficient to cause measurable numbers of people to accept Jesus Christ, and to begin living changed lives. You hear stories of people, at great personal peril, smuggling Bibles into communist countries, and setting up furtive meetings, training leadership teams to perpetuate the work. Or people spending 5-10 years translating the Bible into an African dialect so that several thousand tribal members can understand. Such missionaries do not preach the gospel by metaphor, as in “a strong hand from somewhere” expecting that to count.
I think it is good to point out for the benefit of splinter members that HWA stated that the commission had been fulfilled. However, they also need to note that if indeed this is true, HWA’s effort was very superficial, and totally ineffective. In fact, only the splinter members, ex members, and academic theologians even remember HWA or his teachings. Considering the size of the splinters, even if every member were suddenly an experienced missionary, it would require years to spread the HWA gospel in the way that other mainstream groups are spreading the traditional gospel. Splinter leaders need to be able to justify their existence, though, to galvanize the troops to continue to contribute tithes and offerings to misappropriate and misspend.
It also would not surprise me in the least if I learned that some sycophant yes man had provided HWA with bogus grossly inflated statistics.
BB
The Apostle said it, so it must be true – and more so when their COG’s foundation rests on the words of HWA.
But Bob will either smugly ignore that, or offer a convoluted explanation. And another leading contender for reaching “all nations of the world” is Apostle Pack. He’ll either manage a meaningless explanation or shout incoherently – after all, he was “personally trained” by HWA himself.
There are two aspects to consider, “preached the Gospel” and “all the world”. HWA considered his array of media reached the world, and his personal meeting with despotic heads of state counted as “reaching that nation”. But, as GTA said, mentioning “an unseen hand from somewhere” at a testimonial dinner was not “preaching the Gospel”.
Now reaching the world is judged by magazine distribution, radio and television penetration, letters and phone enquiries but website hits. So now, I guess, a person in Bidilonia accidentally clicking a link to “Who is David C. Pack?” counts as “preaching the Gospel” to that nation.
Hypothetically speaking, if God were waiting to pull the final plug until the world was made accountable, there is no way He could have logically or fairly done it based on the “work” of the Armstrong movement. This takes a back seat to many other issues, but it was another of their huge failures.
BB
This letter from HWA is saying that the splinters, all of them, are frauds.
If the splinters ignore it they call HWA a liar.
From Wiki:
Fraud: In criminal law, fraud is intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent, and verb is defraud. Fraud is a crime and a civil tort at common law, though the specific criminal law definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud.
Undue influence:
A judicially created defense to transactions that have been imposed upon weak and vulnerable persons that allows the transactions to be set aside.
Virtually any act of persuasion that over-comes the free will and judgment of another, including exhortations, importunings, insinuations, flattery, trickery, and deception, may amount to undue influence.
Speaking of fraud, it should be noted that if what Herbert Armstrong was really true — that as of 1984, the gospel had been preached — then logically speaking, the work was done AND THERE WOULD BE NO MORE NEED OF TITHEING (not that there was any to begin with, mind you).
So therefore, no Armstrongist group anywhere has any rights to any further money from former WCG members and taking any money from them would be complete fraud since THE WORK IS OVER.
Declare victory!
Everybody can go home now!
Bob Thiel and Dave Pack (and the rest) need to come clean and address this issue.
Why are they spending the peoples money for something HWA said was completed? Add to this, why did the end not come after the gospel was supposedly preached to the world by the WCG? Where is Jesus Christ?
Another question is, why has Europe not united militarily to destroy the USA? http://youtu.be/AORrIlQGATM
The answer is that the followers of HWA (his theology as taught by the splits) all lack faith. They lack faith in HWA, Jesus Christ and most importantly, themselves.
They have no self esteem, no trust in their own mental abilities to discern that HWA was a false prophet, and a religious charlatan. These people go from church to church looking for “the best prophecy”. They give their money to those who keep the delusion alive in their minds. Proof that religion can be a drug.
They live behind closed doors, within a closed secret society with their secret knowledge awaiting the end times. Meanwhile, their cult leaders go on a spending spree building monuments to themselves.
At what point will they awake? When they are starving and ask for help and they are told that there is no money for such help? This time may come soon if the Wall Street Journal is correct in their summation of a possible total economic collapse.
Those people who rail at us, we who try to reach out and help the very same to awaken and escape the cults, it is they who also lack faith. Instead of leaving their complaint with God, they attack us as wolves. No doubt they shall here the words “I never knew you”
Herbert W. Armstrong and the ACOG’s leaders. Why do so many follow these “Wizard(s)” pulling the strings behind the curtain?
From the outside looking in, it really appears to be increasingly difficult to remain in Armstrongism, doesn’t it James? Do these people ever hear good or encouraging news, even about their little groups? Some of the leaders are becomimg more mean-spirited as the main prophecies (in their own parlance) continue to be “delayed”, others continue to modify the doctrines with which many are enamored, but not enough to make any real difference. And as if those things weren’t bad enough, bang, suddenly there is a splinter, and frequently their best friends end up on the other and are forbidden to fellowship. Imagine how demoralizing it would be to watch your Feast of Tabernacles shrink each year, to be fixated with the obituaries in the Journal, and to be constantly hearing about leaders you once respected acting insanely by most peoples’ standards.
If these people had the types of charity skills built in most of the Sunday-keeping Christian churches, and the Jewish and Messianic churches as well, perhaps they would be better equipped to deal with what is going to happen to them. The problem is, they’ve alienated everyone. In Wisconsin, the local Christian community actually tried to reach out and ended up being criticised for bringing crosses into their expressions of empathy.
This is a really strange group of people that we were once part of! Even today, when I look back, that nineteen year time cycle I spent in WCG from 1956-1975 seems like it was a very powerful modifier over my entire life. I spent some time indoctrinated in it, and the rest rebelling, debunking, disbelieving, and recovering. I think the differences for me personally were that I was dragged into it reluctantly as a child, actually having a frame of reference with which to compare it, and then when the bomb they threatened me with for nearly twenty years turned out to be a dud, I went with my instincts and didn’t allow their excuses and spin to dissuade me. It boggles my mind that the spin and excuses have continued to be used for 38 more years, and that doesn’t seem to bother the insiders a bit. If anything, it appears that they like it!
BB
The real issue here is that all the Armstrongists are defiant. Herbert Armstrong was defiant against God and the Church of God Seventh Day, he was defiant toward Jesus. GTA was defiant.
All of the ministers today of the Armstrong Mafia are defiant. They are defiant toward God, Jesus, each other, society at large, science and all the proofs that they are wrong.
What the Cult of Herbert Armstrong leaders have done is condition all their members to be defiant. They are all defiant toward commonly social standards and social contract; they are defiant toward their own families not in their cult; they are defiant toward science; they are defiant toward each other, on the order, “My cult leader is better than your cult leader”.
So when it comes to the failure of their religion, the failure of any Christian values within their religion and the failure of the prophecies of their false prophet, they stand together defiantly supporting evil.
They are so defiant, in fact, they will never change.
Bob wrote: “Do these people ever hear good or encouraging news, even about their little groups?”
Yes, they hear during announcements that they have “X” amount of web hits. Like that means something. I always heard the BS “The work is growing” but no one new ever showed up.
“…and to be constantly hearing about leaders you once respected acting insanely by most peoples’ standards.”
Herbert Armstrong set the example of bad behavior. They are only following the leader. A mindless child’s game.
“In Wisconsin, the local Christian community actually tried to reach out and ended up being criticised for bringing crosses into their expressions of empathy.”
Yes, that would be Bob Thiel. What a sterling example of Christian love and compassion.
Armstrongism will go the way of Polio. Inoculation towards cults is happening here in the information age. It is only a matter of time before we will hear the death throes of a crumbling and maligned empire, founded by a fraud and child molester.
Douglas,
As we learned in “The Fragmentation of a Sect”, many of the people chose their leader over doctrine(s). Although doctrine differs a small bit, the members are following a personality to lead them.
Once again we have witnessed the cult of personality rear its ugly head. I await to see what new and crazy abuses come forth from the mindless ministry.
“So when it comes to the failure of their religion, the failure of any Christian values within their religion and the failure of the prophecies of their false prophet, they stand together defiantly supporting evil.”
And stand they will. Some over fear of leaving, most because they are as you say, defiant! A man (or woman) is known by the company they keep. You can make a sure fire decision about people and their values by knowing what they believe and who they keep company with.
The immolation of oneself is the most immoral act one can carry through. It is an act of hopelessness, and a sure sign of a desperate people. If you can’t love yourself, bask in self-esteem, then you are unable and unwilling to love, understand and forgive others. Especially those who do not share your views.
Perhaps their immolation is an act of protest against the outside world. If so, we may have another Waco in the making.
At face value, HWA could claim that he fulfilled Matt 24:14; another mark on the prophetic checklist and a notch in his gun lap pistol. If HWA believed this had not been fulfilled until 1984, he missed a golden opportunity back in 1972: the commission had not been fulfilled, put the blame on everyone else, rally the faithful, extort more money. Instead, he went into denial, saying 1972 was not about the great tribulation, it was the Ambassador Auditorium and Readers Digest.
An out the splinter leaders could use is that HWA only fulfilled this in type, and the great commission says, “to make disciples of all nations” – which hasn’t really happened yet. So, a prophecy that is fulfilled, and not fulfilled – an open ended ending. To a splinter leader, that’s a place bet on a two-horse race!
Speaking of website hits, Bob Thiel just posted another Alexa hit list. Using esoteric search filtering, guess who came up on top?
I saw that Hoss. Seemed like it was a plan for him after what I wrote.
Is the time when the Gospel is to be preached around the world the Tribulation period, after the rapture of the Church? Is this preaching of the Gospel to be done by 144,000 Jewish evangelists (Rev 7) and even angels (Rev 14:6)preaching the Gospel?
Steve,
Armstrongism does not preach the rapture. They think they are the only ones that can do this even though HWA said he finished the gospel commission. The new leaders of this heretical movement are building a cult following on a dead man. A man having less worth than that of a stray dog.
James, I understand that HWA’s “rapture” was Petra, sort of a “rapture in place.” As a former member of WCG and graduate of AC, what I find embarrassing, is their ignorance of basic theology along with their appalling arrogance. Ambassador College should have changed their motto from “Recapture True Values to “NEVER IN DOUBT; SELDOM CORRECT.”
“Ambassador College should have changed their motto”
In reality, they should have issued a full refund and given an apology to those who wasted their lives there.
Steve,
In your previous post, you made a good point: the verse HWA claimed to have fulfilled is in the context of the Tribulation. Of course in WCG eschatological hermeneutics, quoting verses out of context was one of the many tools in the bag of tricks. Eventually, someone will realize what was hiding in plain sight.
The “Great Commission” in Matthew tells the Apostles to “make disciples in every nation” – an unintentional hit on a COG website does not make one a disciple. (But then, neither does calling yourself a prophet or apostle make you one.) In Mark, the Apostles are to preach “to every creature.” Okay, the ending of Mark may have been added at a later time, so we’ll let that one go.
Since LCG’s reinterpretation of 2 Thess. 2:1-3 (falling away) was one of the reasons Bob Thiel split, putting Matt. 24:14 in context could blow the game wide open!
As for Petra, I once listened to Dave Pack’s point-by-point itinerary of the journey to Petra. (By the way, if you can ignore the occasional shouting, Pack’s sermons are great when you have insomnia.) When the lucky few of the RCG make it to Judea, they must now flee “to the mountains” (Matt. 24:16). Okay, then why go to Israel (Judea) in the first place?