Blast from the Past…
By Jim V.
I was in the “belly of the whore” from the time I was eleven years old until about six months before I turned forty -I am now 51.
Many things were typical; I was all-but forbidden to attend college (although I have a Mensa-tested IQ within the top 1%), I was told not to worry about retirement or a career (just get by for a while -everything is going to end soon -this could be the year)!
After 29 years in the church with all of the “answers,” all I had was broken dreams, a spokesmanclub certificate -and gray hair. I had a string of lost/missed jobs and opportunities that seemed endless, and at times, hopeless. I also had a marriage that wasn’t much more than an endurance contest (we get along better now than we have in many, many years).
I was isolated, indoctrinated, unplugged and trapped. Unplugged and trapped from reality. My years within the “whore” left me totally unprepared for the real world, for a real life, and for reality…
Which brings up an interesting point -does anyone remember revelations? Remember the “great whore” who had many daughters? You know, the one church that gave birth to many daughter “splinter whores” -from her own belly. Does that sound familiar? And wasn’t the “great whore” involved with the kings of the earth? I wonder if the original Greek can be translated into “Gulfstream” and “Stuben crystal”? Maybe we have “new truth” being revealed here, maybe herbie armweak was kinda, sorta right about something after all. Only it’s wasn’t the Catholic church giving birth to the Protestant denominations -it was the WWCG giving birth to the ABC, XYZ and the WWFU churches. Maybe someone should start a WWSDW church (World Wide Splinter Daughter of the Whore). Or better yet, the WW$$-4F church.
Sorry, I got “off track.” I will repent, pray all night, fast for 5-6 weeks and send in a huge offering -plus the building fund…
Old habits are hard to break -and that is exactly my very real, and very serious point. It takes a long good-bye. It takes years to say good-bye to a lifetime of mind control, brainwashing and indoctrination. It takes years to purge the “new truth,” the old truth and the untruth. But worst of all, it takes years to rebuild a new life that is founded on the “rock” of reality. Who was it that said it is ten times harder to unlearn false knowledge than it is to learn true knowledge?
I did not leave because of the rumors, or the actions of others. I did not leave because of the Gestapo-like actions of the local “Ministry.” It was in March or April of 1988 that 29 years of doubts, questions, suffering, hopelessness, and feelings of failure and guilt finally melded and fused into a bolt of reality. The “alarm clock” of reality reverberated throughout every fiber of my being, throughout my entire mind and my -soul -if you will.
I will share my exact thought at that moment, “This way of life won’t work -it’s impossible.”
While that may seem to be the end, it was only the beginning. I had many superstitious, stone-age attitudes to overcome.” I had false “truths,” phobias, induced paranoia’s, siege mentalities, demons behind every rock and tree, God is going to “get ya,” Sabbath keeping, holy day watching, song singing, note taking, foot-washing, attitudes -and they were all out of touch with reality. In fact, they were insane.
I now have two college degrees, and I have learned that it is very possible for a sane, stable and rational mind to contain very irrational and even insane attitudes and beliefs. It is like a sane, rational computer that contains insane, irrational “software.”
When you leave the church -you begin real life. Now you have to worry about retirement, pensions and -the future. With the church, there was no future -only Petra (and $$).
It takes years to come out of this bondage, and it is not easy. I fully believe that the “hate mail” to this web site is by people who are still is such bondage that they break out in night sweats out of fear and terror -they are still terrified of “blasphemy” against the “apostle.” Either that, or they cannot comprehend what we have been through.
When the bolt of reality hit me, I decided that I would not waste any more of my life just because I was so wrong in the past. Maybe that’s why so many cling to the “splinter whores,” they simply cannot admit they were wrong. If they want to waste the rest of their lives in a vain effort to prove they were “right all along,” then I feel very, very sorry for them. But at the same time -I will move on.
On the other hand, maybe the “splinter whores” are still terrified, and are in bondage. Maybe they still stand in terror of blaspheming the “nonexistent.”
According to the “bible,” God is not the author of confusion. That is an absolute guarantee that He is not the author of politics, religion -or the bible. Maybe religion is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated in mankind’s history.
I learned in my marketing classes that the basis of success is “solving a problem.” Religion “claims” to solve the greatest problem of mankind. We all die -but religion claims to have an answer to that -eternal life -if you will listen to them, and pass the plate.
I have spent 12 years of my life scratching, clawing and digging my way out of the “belly of the whore.” I am just now learning and realizing things that “normal” people learn in their late teens or early twenties. I will never be what I should have been.
I still believe in a “something” God, too much has happened in my life. But if there is a God -he is not religious -and no religion knows what the hell they are talking about. And I also believe this, and this changed my life around. If there is a God -his “will” is written in our own genetics. If a person has the genetics to be an artist, then that is “God’s will.” We have to follow what we “are,” not what we “do.” It is not easy to discover what you “are.” But then, what is?
It takes -a long good-bye.
I understand exactly where you are coming from. My life has gotten better and better the farther from religion I have gotten. Fears no longer motivate me. Keep going. It only gets better.
Years ago i toyed wioth the genetic idea about God. For example, Paul writrs that true sons of God are born as Isaac was. Think about it. Sarah couldn’t have a child, so God visited Sarah and made the necessary adjustments, and Sarah had Isaac.
Is it possible that God actually placed some type of genetic material in Isaac that made him separate from other kids?
Well, Paul constantly emphasizes the fact that if you are christian, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise(Galatians 3:29) , and if you are born of that promise, you are like Isaac(Galatians 4:28). If that is the case, then you would be foreknown like Isaac, predestined like isaac, and called, like Isaac(Romans 8:29-30).
And even more, there is nothing you can do to become one of those “special children(Romans 9:16-22)”
Paul goes to great lengths to point out that the children of the promise, made to Abraham, are the true children of God. How far is it to say that there is a genetic difference in certain select children, a difference we would never detect, yet they would not be the same as the rest of the human population?
That would be the simplest and most logical process that could be established if one had the power to carry it out. It would allow religions to form however they wished, struggle for truth, fight wars, whatever, and it would have no effect on a selection process of special, select children born as Isaac, under the same conditions, ready to inherit a world kingom when the time comes. This is so simple its utterly brilliant, but nobody would believe it, which doesn;t matter, ecause it;s not dependent on anyone’s belief.
If it helps, I heard it takes about twelve years to recover from WWCOG on a anti cult tv series years ago on A&E. In my case I have been recovered from that religious governance for decades now.
I eventually came to smile at myself for thinking the universe could be defined down to “god”.
I kind of gradually left, beginning to look out the door and check the weather just a bit in 1972, when the third coming of the Germans became overdue, and then finally being sure enough to totally walk away after Jesus didn’t honor the public appearance which HWA had booked for Him in 1975. So far as I was concerned, it was then party time! Myself and several close friends and relatives literally exploded from all of the repression to which we had subscribed, and began living life as normal California young people had been doing all around us for the past several decades. It was a joyous and momentous occasion!
Gradually, about ten years later, in the mid 1980s, I began to see career as more than just a way to support a fun lifestyle, and began to clean things up a bit, and become serious, now that I “had a chance” at life. Balance returned, only the type which came from the more responsible elements of society around me, not the cultically driven balance falsely so-called.
I had done a superficial job of dealing with the spiritual issues surrounding HWA/WCG when I left, knowing that sooner or later, they would need to be addressed. I dabbled in many philosophies, my own spirituality, and no spirituality as the decades passed, but it wasn’t until about 2002, when I first (belatedly) got on the internet that I once again came into contact with those who had once been a part of WCG, and began processing the experience, going back and doing my own research, and correcting as much of the error and wrong thinking as possible. Reading available materials from the first three centuries AD provided much insight, as did the materials from legitimate scholars of theology.
I don’t know if one can ever fully recover from Armstrongism. There are so many layers, and one must really actively work at it. But, I do feel that I’m now well on my path, and that is very good for right now, all things considered.
BB
Bob,
You wrote:
“I eventually came to smile at myself for thinking the universe could be defined down to “god”.”
One of our PT editors, Ralph Haulk, (Doogie) is a good read if you can follow him in his articles. Law, politics or religion, this man is well read and has spent decades studying the masters on a host of subjects.
I have been back and forth with him on a daily basis for some years now. The man is brilliant! Once you start to understand where he is coming from you will look at the world differently.
You can read his blog here on the Painful Truth:
http://hwarmstrong.com/doojie/
Other articles can be found at these links:
http://hwarmstrong.com/ralph_on_everything.htm
http://hwarmstrong.com/ralph_haulk_part_2.htm
James.
Byker Bob said: So far as I was concerned, it was then party time!
Bob, I understand that completely. I too went a little wild so to speak, playing catch up after the departure. It was as if I was in my teens again, trying to get back some of the good things I missed out on. I have no regrets with that. I would like to think of it as a normal reaction, and a part of healing.
Been out of the Armstrong’s church since 1986. Find myself wondering about the obvious position of Germany as the ‘go to’ powerhouse, engine room of Europe? Any comments? I remember those prophecies.
Sure Danny, try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AORrIlQGATM#at=15
Thanks James. Seems plagiarism AGAIN. However the likelihood of a united Europe has been predicted + desired obviously, for centuries. Seems closer now than ever before?
Danny, if I had to pick a possibility of a beast power it would be the USA. It fits, but that in itself doesn’t make it a real scenario. Its all conjecture. And that is what HWA and his lackeys do. Shoot their mouths off and get semi rich running a scam of fear.
No one person knows the outcome of world events. We see events within our life span and judge history and predict the future from those views. It is a faulty analysis. One can never know for sure what the future is. Know one thing, Herbie got so much wrong there is no reason to even consider the old bastard was right. Besides, does God use child molesters as a voice? I think not!
http://www.hwarmstrong.com/209.htm
In response to Danny, the Germans were powerhouse warriors throughout history. Read Josephus.
But, if you are inferring that somehow a little increased presence on their part validates the Amstrong premises and positions, only maybe from a Livingroom Church of God perspective, who cares? Even without the cruel authoritarianism and institutionalized corruption, Armstrongism was too toxic and too messed up to have anything to do with the God of the Bible or Jesus Christ. We’d all be better off in the Lake of Fire than spending all eternity in that crap. Sheesh. No concept of the New Covenant, zero understanding of the Holy Spirit? That’s what caused all of the legalism and authoritarianism.
BB
Response to BBob’s response. “A little increased presence.” Facts are Germany now has far more than THAT description on the world stage. Whilst agreeing with much of your Armstrong sentiments; I’m not prepared to deny the obvious contemporary evidence in Europe: Germany. My comment is not to defend the Armstrong’s. It’s a statement of observation of + about the German nation today…….NOT a vote for the Armstrong’s!
Their is [can be] much debate about “New Covenant” for starters, ie, 10 Commandments in or out? My journey is for facts + truth; concentrating overly on individuals that I remember unfavorably, for their actions. Sure serves the “Maintain the rage” ethos, but restricts my energies + journey… Danny.
Well, I think everybody believes their journey is for facts and truth. Unfortunately, the facts and truth are subject to illusion and manipulation. I do expect Germany to continue to be a key player on the world stage, but there is little danger that they somehow underwent a racial transformation from middle eastern Assyrians to Nordic types to fulfill prophecy. The royal family of England was widely known to be German prior to their name change during WW I. Also, surveys show that the predominant dna amongst American citizens is in reality German.
There are numerous alternative prophecy theories, all with their various fans. Some are based on the traditional enemies of Israel extant during the lives of the prophets. I can’t quote you chapter and verse, but in previous discussions on other forums, posters have alluded to a scripture which lists ten Arab nations, and have pointed out that perhaps the whore of Babylon emanates from actual historic Babylon, meaning that it is Islam, and not Catholic Christianity. Further evidence of this is found in Revelation, where the victims of the beast are said to have been beheaded, which is the traditional way in which the Muslim religion has dealt with heretics, while Catholics are known for burning theirs.
Jewish timelines based on modern history and the ancient geneologies indicate that it will yet be 200 years before the aggregate total becomes 6,000, and that only matters if someone believes that God has a 7,000 year plan, another theory based on guesswork as opposed to any sort of direct statement to that effect in the Bible.
Personally, I am more concerned with the international jihad which radical Muslims are openly pursuing. Those who study trends tell us that the Muslim religion is one of the fastest growing faiths in the U.S. today, and we have seen Sharia law exert pressures against our Constitution and Bill of Rights already.
Will the German nation ever again go insane as they did in the twentieth century? That depends on some external factors. The reason Hitler came into power is that Germany was held accountable to pay astronomical war reparations. for WW I, they attempted to do this by printing up funny money, leading to economic disaster via hyperinflation. Hitler’s message seemed to offer solution, and the rest is history. In the memoirs of his long term personal secretary, Hitler is described as seeing himself to be the great fighter against Russian communism, the only one with the will and stamina to do this.
I believe all of us who were ever part of WCG will always be influenced by HWA’s perspectives and theories, if for no other reason than that we will wonder if he could in any way have been right. But enough of his basic core has come unravelled that that has become less and less likely as time has marched on. Had I never known of HWA, would I really be actively concerned about the Germans? Probably not. I’d be focussed on threats to peace and freedom as they appeared to emerge. There really isn’t a heck of a lot that individuals can do to protect themselves against really bad global catastrophies in the first place. So, why even worry about it?
BB
Well said BB! The royal family is has inherited racial genes from Greek, German, Anglo Saxon, Celtic etc. As do all the western nations [people], myself included. Yet THEY are still the royal family with traceable history for eons. American genetic inheritance along with Britain, Canada Australia etc includes German genes. Yet we still know who we are + are called by our national affixed names not called German, Irish etc,unless we’re definitely ‘full blooded’ geographically placed members of those ‘tribes.’ My genetic inheritance is English, Irish + German. However I’m definitely not a racial ‘member’ of those races. I’m one of the race of people, residing in a western nation,which isn’t any of those. Nor would my neighbors regard themselves or me as any other race than what we are, in our western nation….Roman Catholic France BEHEADED HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF FOLK… Muslims and their desire for world rule, Sharia law + jihads: agreed. Real threat now + future…Read The Two Babylons: RC church then, now + soon? My money’s on RC church + pope, mostly from my understanding of Bible scripture… History records savage wars between Muslims + RC church; I believe future holds more of the same.Armstrong also ‘educated’ me: Germany etc. However, I’d studied their history + realized their track record for starting wars, along with a desire to rule
the world or much of it.Before I became entangled in Armstrongism…Danny.
Danny,
Why believe the bible? Do you know how they put the books together?
Actually the Jesus story is based on astrology. Did you know that?
Keep in mind, Bob is also a assistant editor and contributor here on the Painful Truth. I consider him a friend wholeheartedly but I don’t buy into his theology. With that said, I leave you with this:
http://hwarmstrong.com/video/more/greatest-story/greatest-story.html
Give it a minute to load.
Danny,
I believe you are in search for some greater answers, my friend.
It has been literally years since I’ve seen anyone seriously recommend reading Hislop’s “The Two Babylons”, as that work is now widely recognized as being totally bogus scholarship. I thought everybody knew that, but apparently not. You may want to Google “Ralph Woodrow” to learn one scholar’s perspective.
Also, I don’t really believe that it is intellectually honest to use the French Revolution, and the penchant of that day for beheading people as an example of Roman Catholic treatment of heretics. The guillotine was used indiscriminantly, and almost at whim, on nearly anyone (mostly nobles) who was considered to be an enemy of the revolution. The French Revolution was neither a Christian, nor an anti-Christian event.
Probably the most damaging thing which HWA did was to build up the German threat to its absolute apex, and then propose membership in his church as the total solution to this threat, gaining entrance into and power over peoples’ lives, generally ruining them or making them miserable. The fact is, no person could protect anybody against the sorts of things which HWA prophesied. As with William Miller before him, God refused to validate their prophecies or their timelines, leaving them flapping out there in the breeze, discredited, and all alone. The fact is, God does not need a place of safety, nor require membership in any corporate worship groups to protect His people.
BB
James, I simply, purely + totally disagree with you. However I’d defend the right for you to thus say!.. I’m ‘newbie’ to this website; BB was just [like mine] a name to me….Obviously you + I are poles apart regarding religious beliefs, BB I although having a ‘faith’ + belief in God are different in our
translations thereof…..BB I simply stated that a RC nation had beheaded folk replying to yours: no agenda etc….Tell me WHY The 2 Babylons is “Bogus scholarship” you may educate me. Foxes Book of Martyrs + The New FBM is/are still regarded as historically accurate + reliable,far as I know.RC church has written it’s history in the blood of those it’s tortured, murdered + martyred. It certainly fits, to my mind, the religious/military machine of Revelation! Disclaimer: the RC church has been thus identified by several NON Armstrong churches throughout history. My understanding of this fact came from a NON Armstrong, non sabbath observing church. SDA church which I don’t + never have regarded as God’s church are another of many groups, including Pentecostals thus believing….BB: your last paragraph is spot on with me….Danny.
BBob SPEAK.
Dude, I’ve got a job. I don’t know what time zone you live in, but during work hours, that’s what I’m doing.
BB
Bob..I work, 53 years to date. What time windows suit your schedule?..Danny.
Danny,
You do what you have to do. I just supply the facts as I see them.
James,
“Facts” are the stuff life is made of. THEORY [nudge, nudge, wink ,wink, know what I mean, know what I mean?] is sculptured, moulded + forced by facts to morph into reality. Thus it has always been + so mote it be–James. How humans see “facts” is actuated by their/our human minds; we often translate “facts” into what suits our persona, lifestyle, social status, peer group, CULT, non religious groups: clubs, lodges atheistic/scientific groups etc. It’s a FACT James that most of us “Do what we have to” every day……It’s also a FACT that Darwin “Did what he had to do” he returned to Christianity. His theory was altered dramatically by facts!…Danny.
BBob. HAVE you + contributors herein. Considered that the Roman Catholic church fulfills the identifying factors of a CULT?…Please repy asap!…Danny.
BB. Did you know HWA actully had no middle name? Or have I been misinformed?…Danny
Yeah. He took the only letter of the alphabet with a monosyllabic name. It’s probably significant that “wolf” starts with a W.
BB
I’ll answer your latest question, Danny, and then get on to Hislop. The term cult has become so overused over the past fifty years since I first heard it applied to my parents then “new” religion (Armstrongism) that it has largely lost its meaning and its sting. Yes, of course the term “cult” could be applied to the RCC. But, some of our atheist friends right here on the blog would quickly point out that according to strictest definition, Christianity could be described as a cult. The operative term becomes toxic. A toxic cult. One that causes irreparable damage in peoples’ lives. Not all cults are damaging like the HWAcaca, and you won’t find Painful Truth-like websites associated with them, because the balance of their particular scales is tipped towards the good side.
BB
Byker Bob. What the!…Well then I reckon ATHEISM IS a cult: Darwin is their human significant other + science is their worshiping altar! You’re probably aware that late in his life, Darwin returned to Christianity…The RCchurch/pope etc fulfills the EXACT dictionary definition of a cult…
I first understood about the RCchurch, false prophet stuff before I’d heard of Armstrongism. From a protestant type, non Sabbath,non holy days church.
I’m aware of scientists who most definitely believe in God. They may not believe in the same way many church goers believe, but they do have a basic concept of a creator or lawgiver. I’m happy for Darwin. The atheists may use his theory, but so do I. Physical evidence seems to show that the big bang and evolution are the processes God used to create the universe.
BB
BB. ” SEEMS to show”: is that a scientific analytic term?…Danny
I’m going to preface what I have to say about Hislop with a few remarks. I am making an exception here for Danny. Normally, if someone shares that they find The Two Babylons credible, believe in British Israelism, think Simon Magus started the Catholic Church, or believe the Germans are descended from the ancient Assyrians, I go into weather discussing mode.
Anything else usually proves to be a waste of time. I mean, the rebuttals or corrections to all of these ridiculous theories are a couple of mouseclicks away! Any janitor could access them. Unless you are running across the rare innocent or naive one, those who give these theories credibility generally do so not as a result of serious scholarship, but because they are part of a package of dogma. And for some reason, they feel compelled to indulge in endless arguments in support of their beliefs.
British Israelism is responsible for a large percentage of the problems with the Armstrong movement, The Two Babylons is responsible for the rest. Alexander Hislop was by all accounts rabidly anti-Catholic long before writing his book. His book is largely based on the mythologies of ancient Babylonian cultures, not even on credible, authenticated historical accounts.
Some of what he wrote is complete fabrication. In his effort to build a case against Catholicism, he also cherry-picks, proof-texts, and connects circumstantial dots without the necessary supporting evidence. Unfortunately, this methodology served as a blueprint for the type of research practiced by the WCG allegedly proving nearly all of their beliefs. It is why serious historians have been able to make mincemeat out of such documents as “The True History of the True Church, and it is why Herman Hoeh later pulled his Compendium of World History. Hislop methodology deserves the blame.
Nimrod is mentioned in the Bible. However, he is not referenced specifically by that name in historic records, leaving people to guess who he might have been. Semiramis is not mentioned in the Bible. The few brief references to Nimrod in the Bible do not mention any female consorts. Once again, historians are left to speculate as to her identity outside of mythology, and likely candidates didn’t even live their lives in the same century as Nimrod. Rather than follow an evidentiary trail, allowing the facts to produce a conclusion, Hislop took specific Catholic practices and props, and searched all the available mythologies of pagan Mesopotamian cultures to find similar practices. Then, he took this circumstantial “evidence”, assembled it and without any historic corroboration, he claimed direct connection between Babylonian paganism and Roman Catholicism. He used the resulting work in his evangelism to destroy Catholicism, while supporting his own Protestantism. Oddly enough, Herbie took it further, using it to trash both Catholics and Protestants, calling the Protestants “harlot daughters” even though the WCG derived from COG-7, which derived from the Seventh Day Baptists, a sabbatarian Protestant group.
Probably the best thing anyone who still finds Hislop credible could do would be to find a copy of Ralph Woodrow’s second book, The Babylon Connection read it, and become enlightened. Woodrow had once been a proponent of Hislop’s, but his later scholarship uncovered so much error that he felt compelled to correct it. Other than that, how is the weather?
BB
Good analysis Bob. Hislop and his book was bullshit. Bias in every way.
BB-Taa. Will do. Weather stormy here!…And the RCchurch came from, out of??
You’ve only given me two ‘escape clauses’: I’m certainly no “innocent” and I don’t feel naive?!….
P.S. You’re correct about the ‘geneology of the Armstrong church….Danny.
Danny, there were two churches. Christianity was never intended to function in only one (Jewish) culture. It was meant to have a universal application, so that all cultures could be drawn to the Father. There was the church unto the Jews, and the church unto the Gentiles. The key ingredient to being a disciple of Jesus Christ was always the transformed heart. If you read Apostle James’s edict from the Jerusalem Council following Paul’s appeal after the attack on his congregations by the Judaizers, you will see that James applied the Noahide standards traditionally recognized by the Jews as applying to Gentile converts to Paul’s churches. If we read the writings of the Ante Nicene Fathers, we learn that the Jewish Christians were persecuted out of existence, while Paul’s Gentile Christians thrived. The headquarters of the Christian church “the way” shifted from Jerusalem to Antioch, and finally to Rome. The church unto the Gentiles morphed into the Catholic, or Universal Church of God. If you read some of the writings of the Ante Nicene fathers, who formed an unbroken chain starting with the ones personally trained by Jesus’ disciples, you will learn that Sunday keeping Gentile Christians were painfully martyrred right along with sabbath keeping Jewish Christians, by Nero, Domitian, and other Roman Emperors. The tortures described are so intense that one would have needed the Holy Spirit to resist until death.
These are my beliefs, based on my own research. They do not reflect the beliefs of James, or the PT website, or any of the other posters here. James has been just awesome in allowing wide diversity here! I need to make that plain to you, and to encourage you to do your own research. It is all part of personal accountability, and the individualized plans we all seem to be on.
First off. I’ve not said here that Sabbath keeping guarantees one’s Christian, I don’t believe that.Ditto for holy day observance + other Armstrong stuff.
Secondly, Foxes Book of Martyrs + the NEW FBM records Christians torured, murdered + martyred by both RCchurch + Muslims. These folk resisted unto death. Martyrs included + do: Sabbath/Sunday observers + church folk NOT holding any day sacred.
The Ante Nicene fathers to me, aren’t God inspired, that’s my value judgement there! Their records are contemporary observations + have historical value in my opinion. History records the torure, murder + martyring of Christians BY the Roman Catholic Church. Ignoring the lessons of history….you probably know the rest.
BB: To regard the RCC as God’s true church or, a true Church of God to me personally. Is so far off beam + “out of whack’ that I’m doing you + James a favor: exiting herewith. Revelation is so very clear on the nature of the ‘false prophet’ his power, strategies + POLITICAL INVOLVEMENT, manipulation + blasphemies!….”James” not really cognizant of your structure there, or meaning?..He must be top honcho there–I guess?…Anyway, it’s been interesting. Once AGAIN I’m struck by the fact/experience: discovering that sites such as James’s, Grace Communion International + others I’ve ‘sussed’ out TO A MAN have okayed the RCChurch as a TRUE Christian church, preaching via pope: God’s word. UNLESS GOD ALMIGHTY CHANGES MY MINDSET, I’LL NEVER ACCEPT THAT—GOD WILLING!…….Vale….Danny. 23/8/13.
Danny, I think we have boggled your mind! Nowhere did I state that the RCC was God’s true church today! I simply stated that the Gentile Christians morphed into the Catholic Church. That is where the Catholic Church came from, not ancient Babylonian paganism. There are many separate issues to deal with here.
The RCC got off track, which is why there needed to be a Protestant Reformation. From the reformation we get the fundamental principle of a personal relationship with God. Our journey is individualized and personalized, and has nothing to do with man-made authority structures, or putting a corporate entity between ourselves and God. But, hey. It is all OK. I knew when we first began dialogging that you weren’t ready for all of this.
Wherever you are going, whatever you are doing, Godspeed, my friend. Keep searching hopefully outside the Armstrong envelope!
BB
Byker Bob Writes:
“From the reformation we get the fundamental principle of a personal relationship with God. Our journey is individualized and personalized, and has nothing to do with man-made authority structures, or putting a corporate entity between ourselves and God.”
Danny-
And this is the quagmire for those who were once in a fundamentalist movement. They are looking for law keeping, a set of rules, a collective. Let us call this what it is. Spiritual communism.
From a Christian perspective in which I do not participate:
A experience with God is individual and personal. A God that leads you towards personal growth is freedom. This is a God in which one can make applicable change to ones life that is meaningful and fulfilling.
The god of armstrongism is no god at all. It cannot lead you to change anymore than bribing a politician with penny change and expect him to alter the course of human events for your benefit.
BBOB + James. Well. You both say a lot of stuff accurately. Unfortunately it’s mixed with a whole lot of pseudo educated bovine fertilizer! Here’s James: texting about God experience with one, “Personal relationship with God.” Yet he’s an athiest! So he’s saying we have a personal relationship with GOD. Atheists don’t believe in God?! So honcho James says we have a personal relationship with a God he doesn’t believe exists! PATHETIC! Here’s BB spieling for the RCchurch yet saying never said God’s true church! No, BB you never said that in bold, actual spelled out text. Yet most readers [my opinion] would translate your words as support for the RCc. For you two + contributors to this website: try this on for size!…’Sussing’out Grace Communion International, PTBLOG + others I’ve wasted intellectual time on! ‘TO A MAN’ you’ve all one common denominator. You ALL claim pope+RCc speak for God, represent God. Thereby your support for him + RCc as what you ALL believe, represent God on earth! Is SUPPORT OF A CULT! Dictionary defination of ‘cult’ fits exactly: RCc.
Danny,
I thought that you were a troll! Trying to set us up are you?
“Here’s James: texting about God experience with one, “Personal relationship with God.” Yet he’s an athiest (sic)!”
No I am not an atheist. I am agnostic as to the bible and its god(s).
But if I speak as to biblical doctrine to someone who posses as a christian what is wrong with that? These are but views that Christians are suppose to embrace. Even Paul spoke like this to others.
“FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS” Read it once. Nothing to it. People gave their lives for their belief system. So what?
As to wasting intellectual time, well that’s not bullshit, that’s horseshit!
HEY BB/JAMES! Read FOXES BOOK OF MARTYRS+ FNEWBM? Noticed you’ve not mentioned it in reply to my naming it to you several times. Wondered about that?
Bob,
This guy “Danny” is a troll. We get these ass-hats here now and again.
As too the RC church, its just another competing organization for other peoples hard earned wealth. Why does anyone need any organization to get between them and their god? They don’t.
Ralph has it right. Matthew 24:23: “Then, if any man shall say unto you, ‘Lo, here is Christ, or there, BELIEVE IT NOT”.
http://hwarmstrong.com/doojie/?p=286
Danny wrote and I missed it, “You’re probably aware that late in his life, Darwin returned to Christianity…”
The Lady Hope Story is bullshit!
Is this like your evolutionary theory over at Silenced? Based on crap?
Its feast time again and the nuts are trying to impress their god. Happens every year.