Confused

Confused
Confused

Herbert Armstrong spoke of conversion. We’ve had an opportunity to have observed his behavior. We’re a bit confused. After seeing what he did and how he acted, we’re not really sure what conversion is.

It is our understanding that some people have received an altar call. They came down and accepted Jesus as their personal savior. Some of them go their way not feeling particularly different, but within a few days people begin remarking that they’ve changed. One man was told by his coworkers that they noticed he didn’t swear any more; he also didn’t smoke any longer; he didn’t drink alcohol any more — his life was transformed. Another man heard singing and went inside the church. He was a really bad man, but he was convicted in his mind, accepted Jesus. His life was transformed. He stopped carousing, drinking, swearing; his temper disappeared and he stopped fighting with others. In due time, he volunteered to assist a jail chaplain and continued many years helping prisoners pursue change. All of those who have claimed this experience, changed from the inside out — became, in religious terms, a new man.

It is our understanding from Scripture that there is fruit of the spirit after conversion:

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Galations 5:22-23

It would seem that if the process of conversion worked properly, this is what we would see and we would not expect to see this:

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galations 5:19-21

This is where things get really dicey: We have seen over decades the behavior of the founders, leaders and ministers of the Armstrongist Churches of God. We have especially noticed Roderick Meredith, David Pack, Gerald Flurry, Ronald Weinland, those fun guys at United and the CoGWA, along with the minor sects which barely exist but seem to have attracted undo attention from their bizarre and extreme behavior. As we examine the ‘fruit’ so to speak, we seem to see more of the ‘works of the flesh’ than ‘fruit of the spirit’. In fact, we seem to see more of:

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

II Timothy 3:1-5

It just seems that this conversion thing isn’t working with the Armstrongist Churches of God. People are unhappy. There’s quite a lot of power politics. There’s a lot of cruelty and abuse. People are being simultaneously abused and neglected. The leaders seem to get more greedy and DEMAND more money every week that goes by. There are complaints from the congregants (some just grumble). Those who complain are then accosted and accused of being disloyal. Many are disfellowshipped. We’re thinking that this sort of thing just doesn’t happen in the joyous spirit filled congregations of the converted faithful.

It should be clear why we have such confusion. It just doesn’t seem that the Armstrongists are living up to their hype. It seems that keeping the Sabbath, keeping the Feasts, Tithing and all the other physical rituals to transform people from the outside in is an unsuccessful strategy.

So please do explain it: We’re confused.

What is this conversion thing again and where can we find a good example of it?

5 Replies to “Confused”

  1. Nail, meet my good friend, Hammer.

    This, more than any other single argument, is responsible for my leaving the COGs and for leaving christianity.

    Herbert poked the rest of christianity so full of holes, and rightfully so. The orthodox christian creeds, eastern, Roman, and protestant, all contradict their bible so much. Roman and protestantism contradict each other so much. It’s easy to say the pentecostals are cRaZy. It’s easy to point fingers at the William Millers or Harold Campings. Other televangelists, like Creflo Dollar, Benny Hinn, or even Billy Graham might have their problems. But the holes in the rest of christendom are no kind of defense against the holes in Armstrongism. What about our own unconverted, child-molesting, money-grubbing, televangelist? What about all those ministers who lord it over you while treating everyone, including other ministers, like shit? What about all those ugly and contentious schisms (which is when you see everyone’s true colors!) How about them apples? Yes, where exactly is the evidence in transformed lives for this god who doesn’t answer my prayers. Is it just me? I doubt it.

    So, once the touchpaper was lit, so far away, it burned and burned, exploding all of christendom until it made its way home to the ticking time-bomb that I was sitting on. (How do you like my mixed metaphor? Haha!)

    Is there a god of the gaps? I can’t rule it out. But I think I can cross the christian god off the long, long list of possible contenders. If he’s out there, and he wants me to know about him, I guess that’s up to him. Until then, I’ll be over studying epistemology, so it better be a DAMN GOOD presentation, LOL.

  2. First off… The Church of God IS CORRECT in its message of The Coming Kingdom of Yahweh God to Earth!!! Yahshua Jesus came preaching the same message of his Father’s Kingdom ‘Government’ coming to Earth. It is mentioned at least 75 times in the New Testament. The Kingdom Coming was, IS THE GOSPEL Yahshua commissioned be spread over the Globe.

    Secondly… the “Confusion of Conversion” is of, from ‘the Prince of this world’, Hasatan, the fallen Angel governing the Earth. ALL confusion on the earth is caused by – a thought – placed in the mind of a man that is acted on by that man! That man did not discern Yahweh’s will before acting carnally on the thought.

    Thirdly… ALL of those evangelists are MEN of flesh and sinful. They were not and are not divine beings. Follow not man but live by the Spirit of Yahweh. Live with the mind of Yahshua!!!

    Finally… You are only responsible for your own actions!
    When and following your ‘conversion’, acceptance of Yahshua as your Savior and are immersed in water baptism and receive the Spirit of Yahweh…CHOOSE to live rightly in the Fruit of The Spirit, thus avoiding the downfalls of the men you point fingers at.

    1. Please show us an example. Certainly, we haven’t seen this sort of thing in the Armstrongist cult. If you look there, you would conclude there is no such thing as conversion and your posting isn’t helpful.

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